tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post6062937866656210818..comments2024-03-29T01:46:51.442-04:00Comments on Lisa Nielsen: The Innovative Educator: Face Off: Should Teachers Pay Teachers Or Share Freely?Lisa Nielsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-86732616016854915032016-07-15T07:35:10.160-04:002016-07-15T07:35:10.160-04:00Several people have mentioned that teachers should...Several people have mentioned that teachers should be paid when corporations use their materials on a broad-scale. But, I want to point out that even when teachers ARE being paid, it usually doesn't equate financially to the true value of the work. I know there are some exceptions, but for the most part teachers don't get compensated very well for their products. I think this is in part due to the fact that many people believe they should be freely shared. So, when teachers are paid, it often isn't very much. It's often seen as "fun, summer money" and not real compensation.<br /><br />I worked as a educational consultant for a number of years (sometimes while working full-time as a teacher) and I rarely got paid well. Edtech companies and start-ups really abuse the intellectual property of teachers by taking their knowledge and ideas and turning it around for profit. You could argue they don't have the funds to pay consultants, but later on when they perform well and make a profit, they don't compensate the teachers that helped them.<br /><br />Even large organizations don't pay their consultants very well. I created materials for a large educational organization in the US and was paid $1600 for my work. This work is now used by millions of students each year. The organization not only sells the product, but they have also created guides for use with the product I created that they also sell. I don't get a percentage of any of that profit.<br /><br />I don't believe teaching will ever be seen as a true profession and not just a "calling" if the intellectual property of teachers isn't respected financially.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18406083672229478377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-78014009425234841652016-07-07T17:30:44.584-04:002016-07-07T17:30:44.584-04:00No Gregory. My job did not provide me with access ...No Gregory. My job did not provide me with access to students relating to the topics in my books. That is how I rationalize that one. <br /><br />Yes. I state that publishing and selling a book unrelated to one's job is different then selling materials that are created as a part of your job. I too have done both and there is a difference. If I create something for the job I am paid to do, I share it. I have already created it. If I do something such as write a book outside my job and outside work hours, then being paid makes sense should I choose that option. That said, I have given away thousands of free copies of my books as well. If I am paid to speak I share all materials created for the engagement freely with those who attend my session and I share with the world. This is what works for me and what is allowed by my employer.<br /><br />You ask how innovators in education are rewarded. Personally I have enjoyed being able to provide environments, opportunities, and support for educators and students and feel rewarded as I watch them grow. I also have been able to participate in wonderful experiences where I have the opportunity to share my expertise with others. Additionally, I have learned a tremendous amount from other innovators with whom I share ideas and resources. Finally, I work for a school district that values my innovative work and insights and employs me to share this with other educators. I am sure other innovators have other equally rewarding experiences they can share if you reach out to them.Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-77095353019132101732016-07-07T15:53:59.999-04:002016-07-07T15:53:59.999-04:00Lisa, The topics your books seem to be about are...Lisa, The topics your books seem to be about are things that you gained experience from in dealing with students. Your job provides you with continued access to those students didn't it? How to you rationalize that one? At the very beginning you state that publishing a book is very different than producing other types of materials. I have done both and its not such a big difference. Based on this line you have conveniently drawn in the sand what you do is Ok but what others do is not. Your books are available as Kindle edition so you basically sent digital files to the publisher just as other do on TPT. How do innovators get rewarded in education? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02820259547983786734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-70759981506777503292016-07-06T10:27:09.996-04:002016-07-06T10:27:09.996-04:00Socialism advocates that the means of production, ...Socialism advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. That is something with which our teachers and students are having success. We work with them to create, produce, freely distribute material, and continuously get their input. It's called participatory design. If you are interested, you can read more about that at http://theinnovativeeducator.blogspot.com/2016/03/incorporating-student-voices-with.htmlLisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-3576474489414500142016-07-06T10:22:41.591-04:002016-07-06T10:22:41.591-04:00My budget for the year was $0.
As a result I hav...My budget for the year was $0. <br /><br />As a result I have worked very hard in the following ways:<br />1) I reach out to non-profit and for-profit partners to provide high-quality, free opportunities for teachers. <br />2) I find funding to help educators create materials that can be made available for free for all.<br />3) I discover and connect educators to grant and funding sources. <br />4) I connect educators who can share and collaborate with each other. <br />5) I help and support others freely and in turn they help me.Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-65180978930685620002016-07-06T10:17:20.743-04:002016-07-06T10:17:20.743-04:00Your school or district may be one that let's ...Your school or district may be one that let's you sell what you create as part of your job, but in most districts that is not the case. Also, to clarify, I didn't say working in your field is not better. What I shared is that if we create work as a part of our job, I believe that teachers should share that work. This results in cash-strapped teachers not having to lay their hard-earned money out for materials that help their children succeed. <br /><br />Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-74011579917250524922016-07-05T19:01:58.285-04:002016-07-05T19:01:58.285-04:00The post is not questioning how Teachers Pay Teach...The post is not questioning how Teachers Pay Teachers works. It was not about the inner workings of various outlets that provide materials for educators. The focus in on whether teachers should sell or share. That said, I think it is smart of TPT and all providers of learning materials to provide a mechanism for schools and districts to pay. Those that do will be more successful. <br /><br />After discussing the issue, my revised question would be this:<br /><br />Should teachers sell to or share with other teachers the work they already do for their employer? My answer to that is: share. <br /><br />If you do something outside your employment, I think compensation is great in some cases, but I suggest the compensation come from a source other than a teacher (i.e. district, company, funder). <br /><br />Furthermore, if an educator is paid to present, I would recommend they specify that they want to share what they created with teachers and not have teachers charged for it. Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-79306133740176140602016-07-05T18:52:39.747-04:002016-07-05T18:52:39.747-04:00In my district librarians are teachers. The offici...In my district librarians are teachers. The official title is teacher of the library. I have worked in various capacities as a teacher of the library, literacy coach, tech coach, staff developer, and more. In my current role I have the pleasure of having public school pedagogues as the students I teach, and people I work with and support.Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-87599889408457636212016-07-05T18:46:12.400-04:002016-07-05T18:46:12.400-04:00This idea of free to all is Socialism at it's ...This idea of free to all is Socialism at it's best. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02779608389463101121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-28637158571873902832016-07-05T18:45:16.938-04:002016-07-05T18:45:16.938-04:00My budget was $125 for the year. The year. For a...My budget was $125 for the year. The year. For an entire year in fifth grade What was yours?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02779608389463101121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-63315954752079935802016-07-05T18:40:25.258-04:002016-07-05T18:40:25.258-04:00Mine doesn't. My salary is dismal. It's ...Mine doesn't. My salary is dismal. It's like that everywhere in my state. If I want to continue to afford teaching, I have to have a second job. No choice. Why isn't it better for me to find work in my field for my second job? My school doesn't deserve anything extra from me. All it does is cut costs and corners, adding more work to my plate each year and pay me less for doing it. EXPECTING me to provide most of my own supplies. My students do deserve more though, and because of TPT, they get it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02779608389463101121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-45004172554662912372016-07-05T17:40:11.880-04:002016-07-05T17:40:11.880-04:00To clarify...
Yes. I shared what Tom and Steve sh...To clarify...<br />Yes. I shared what Tom and Steve shared about how relevant educators collaborate along with a screen shot from their presentation. <br /><br />Yes. I did not say I am against teachers selling what they create outside the work they are paid to do. <br /><br />With OER teachers are often paid to create curriculum and then it is shared freely with teachers. <br /><br />As far as books, speaking engagements, etc., that is determined by district. Where I work you may not be paid to speak or write a book related to your job without a "difficult to acquire" waiver. Other districts have different regulations. <br /><br /><br />Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-29014583831114978682016-07-05T11:57:07.281-04:002016-07-05T11:57:07.281-04:00Please clarify - is it "If you are Tom Whitby...Please clarify - is it "If you are Tom Whitby or Steve Anderson, authors of The Relevant Educator Amazon Inspire is on the right track. In their recent talk at #ISTE2016 they shared that they believe relevant educators don't pay each other they share with each other freely." or is it "I did not say I am against teachers selling what they create outside the work their employer pays them to do" because there appears to be a difference. The first implies OER - no getting paid but open and free sharing and collaboration between relevant teachers while the latter suggests it's okay to get paid as long as the work is outside the scope of the job description, you are writing a book, or something else unrelated to the work you do. Or, is it collaboration and sharing within something like a PLC or district-wide system such as http://curriculum.nesd.ca/Grade7/Pages/English-Language-Arts-Support.aspx that should be free sharing but it's okay to get paid if people share via a publication?<br /> I ask because I have bought and read numerous books by educators ,who are still teaching, about their classroom/school practices and what they are doing in relation to planning, assessment, classroom organization (flipped classrooms, maker space, genius hour, minecraft, etc through Amazon mostly) in which they include various materials and suggestions with examples from their classroom/school practices and it seems okay to charge for this format of knowledge sharing. kellywchrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00811167643423355223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-61495269305041154452016-07-05T08:19:40.596-04:002016-07-05T08:19:40.596-04:00==Why shouldn't teachers sell materials they c...==Why shouldn't teachers sell materials they create in their home on their own time. ==<br />They shouldn't if it is against their districts IP policy.<br /><br />==Why do people like you keep wanting to treat teachers like second class servants or worse, slave labor.==<br />No teacher I work with feels I treat them in such a way. Rather I work to do my best to ensure they are supported and have the resources they need at no cost. <br />Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-56546957920271871292016-07-05T08:16:43.408-04:002016-07-05T08:16:43.408-04:00Clarification answers:
==How can teachers share ma...Clarification answers:<br />==How can teachers share material they create in the employ of a school district with others without the permission of the district?== <br />Answer: Employees should ask for permission to share work if that is what their district requires. <br /><br />==Doesn't the district have rights to any intellectual property created related to present or past employment?== <br />Answer: Yes.<br /><br />==I wonder why you, Tom and Steve are so against teachers selling what they create, if they can, while each of you sells materials to teachers as entrepreneurs?==<br />Answer: I did not say I am against teachers selling what they create outside the work their employer pays them to do.Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-50516921446532107172016-07-05T08:10:57.898-04:002016-07-05T08:10:57.898-04:00Reading by Heart,
I have served as an elementary ...Reading by Heart, <br />I have served as an elementary school teacher, coach, and staff developer. I am aware that teachers spend money on their classrooms. I work very hard to change that for the teachers I work with. Just because "something is" so doesn't mean it is right nor does it mean we shouldn't work to make things better.Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-76543788132274994352016-07-05T08:07:08.008-04:002016-07-05T08:07:08.008-04:00Yes Taralynn Smith I have taught for nearly 20 yea...Yes Taralynn Smith I have taught for nearly 20 years in our largest school districts and I have also worked with teachers across the globe. I'm quite connected to reality. If there is something specific I said that you think is unrealistic, I invite you to point that out so we can have intelligent discourse rather than snarky comments that have no basis. Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-52467272573746877362016-07-05T08:04:41.036-04:002016-07-05T08:04:41.036-04:00Reading by Heart,
You use quotes to indicate my p...Reading by Heart, <br />You use quotes to indicate my point of view saying:<br />==You are painting all teachers with far too broad a brush: "No teacher should be paid for their curriculum writing." ==<br /><br />I never said or wrote that. <br /><br />You also say:<br />==You use this broad brush in your headline==<br /><br />No. I don't. I ask a question for readers to respond to:<br />==Should Teachers Pay Teachers Or Share Freely?==<br />Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-1512752134320705692016-07-04T22:36:44.679-04:002016-07-04T22:36:44.679-04:00Since the article seems to in particular question ...Since the article seems to in particular question the way the Teachers Pay Teachers works, I would like to point out that it fails to mention the tremendous efforts that the TpT website has made lately to bring easy purchasing power to DISTRICTS and SCHOOLS as the payee, even creating a page devoted specifically to schools as buyers: http://schools.teacherspayteachers.com/ and streamlining the use of purchase orders. In most school settings, teachers are able to go through some avenue to request purchasing of materials, including materials they want from TpT. It is out of convenience that most teachers purchase it themselves.<br /><br />In answer to your question, "So, what do you think? Should educators pay each other or share their genius freely?" <br />My genius is free, you are welcome to it on my blog, my copyrighted materials are not (well some of them are, but which are up to me).LD Helferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15362613994636151867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-56147804264748298212016-07-04T18:44:36.953-04:002016-07-04T18:44:36.953-04:00==The flaw in your argument is assuming that all t...==The flaw in your argument is assuming that all teacher-authors are paid by school districts. ==<br /><br />I never stated that.<br /><br />==Being a teacher does not automatically strip one of the dignity of possessing knowledge and expertise that they may share with others in the same way many others have done when deriving financial support from publishing and speaking fees.==<br />I never stated that. Simply that in districts like mine it is not allowed. Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-89570491134207629752016-07-04T18:41:44.573-04:002016-07-04T18:41:44.573-04:00==Just because NYC teachers can't make extra m...==Just because NYC teachers can't make extra money in their free time doesn't mean all other teachers shouldn't either.==<br />Agree<br /><br />==What about the thousands of teachers who do tutoring outside of school hours to earn extra money? ==<br />In NYC you can't tutor student from your school, however, what I indicated in my comments was unrelated to this. I said if you do something as part of your job, then I believe it should be shared. Lisa Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07759123507185453030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-39219543989362898712016-07-04T16:38:01.602-04:002016-07-04T16:38:01.602-04:00Have you ever taught? Trust me, they are NOT comp...Have you ever taught? Trust me, they are NOT compensated by their employers. They are paid a little over minimum wage in most states, one you figure in the countless hours they spend outside of school. Try a little reality, sweetheart.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02779608389463101121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-28798100782900315922016-07-04T16:34:56.232-04:002016-07-04T16:34:56.232-04:00If schools paid educators as the professionals tha...If schools paid educators as the professionals that they are, the way we do doctors and lawyers, your argument might have merit. In many states, you can make more money in retail, or on Welfare, than you can teau. Why shouldn't teachers sell materials they create in their home on their own time. They hold other second jobs, waitress, bartender, retail clerks. Why not sell their own work. It's what they are good at doing. Why do people like you keep wanting to treat teachers like second class servants or worse, slave labor.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02779608389463101121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-91986548556506693282016-07-04T13:41:29.868-04:002016-07-04T13:41:29.868-04:00Lisa, I have a couple clarification questions? Fir...Lisa, I have a couple clarification questions? First how can teachers share material they create in the employ of a school district with others without the permission of the district? I understand that the school district retains the intellectual rights of this material so sharing, even freely, would have to be within the guidelines of the district. And, even if it's no longer a part of a present job description, doesn't the district have rights to any intellectual property created related to present or past employment? Kind of like the intellectual rights that some software companies have for their employees who cannot take what they create with them or use it for their own even if it's not directly related to their current employment situation within the company? How can teachers share anything with other teachers unless they create something unrelated to what they are currently teaching? <br />Secondly, although I think I understand what you are saying about sharing materials, I wonder why you, Tom and Steve are so against teachers selling what they create, if they can, while each of you sells materials to teachers as entrepreneurs? Isn't part of the idea of being an entrepreneur about seeing a need and providing a solution? I struggle with this because, as an administrator/teacher of 25 years I have done many presentations for "free", have not been compensated for materials I have created for various people yet I continue to see people who get paid for doing exactly the same thing tell people they should do it for free. So, when can people charge for their knowledge? At what point is it okay to make a profit from one's learning? <br />kellywchrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00811167643423355223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8318734518772387227.post-64884714911896398802016-07-04T00:49:55.799-04:002016-07-04T00:49:55.799-04:00It seems that the whole concept of Open Educationa...It seems that the whole concept of Open Educational Resources is being ignored in this thread. If content becomes free to use, then the obligation to pay for creating content falls on those that choose to create. Governments and coalitions of schools will make the best funding sources for content creation / curation. If an individual chooses to create something and sell it they will have a much higher bar for quality and accessibility. <br />This issue depends first on who pays for content, and secondly who gets paid. <br /><br />Here's a model that is likely to be used more in the future http://developingprofessionalstaff-mpls.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-oer-business-model.htmlDan McGuirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17165245665212961209noreply@blogger.com